My inspiration for this relatively quick post(considering the expansive topics, anyway) comes from two somewhat disparate sources.
First is the talk given by Dieter F. Uchtdorf recently about how work and learning sustained him during his rough childhood in post-WW2 Europe.
Two Principles for Any Economy
As refugees from East Germany, he and his family had almost nothing, and had to work hard to stay alive. Things eventually got better for them because they kept working. I’ve long believed that work is essential to mental, physical and spiritual health. The natural question that I come back to whenever this comes up is simply:
What would you do if you didn’t have to work for a living, and had all your material needs and wants satisfied?
I’d still design games, produce art, and find ways to teach people art, science and math. (Those aren’t incongruous; I believe that art and games have vast teaching potential.) When I wanted to work up a good sweat, I’d find someone who needs help moving, or go build something in a woodshop. I’d go pick up that Ph. D. in Astrophysics that I’ve wanted for years. I would spend more time with my family, working and playing (play is a child’s work in a lot of ways), learning and teaching. I love being productive and creating things and/or fixing things. I couldn’t sit still for long. Is it any wonder why I’m allergic to the Big Brother welfare state?
The second source is Wolfshead’s article over here:
Why Scaling Challenge Should be the Future of MMO Content
It’s an excellent article that is quite obviously about play, but it prompted a similar question for me:
What would you do in an MMO (or any other game) if you didn’t have to work for gear or levels, and all your in-game wants and needs were satisfied?
I’ve already answered that a bit in my Game Tourism article, but to recap, I’d play the game. In other words, if the “game” is nothing but the loot treadmill and chasing levels, well… there’s not much there for me. I’d play with that for a while, and probably have fun, but it’s ultimately a shallow set of experiences to build a game on in my mind. There is a LOT more that can be done in game design.
Now obviously, these are somewhat different questions, but to me, they both dig to the same core questions:
What is important to you? What motivates your actions? If you were freed from mundane concerns, what would you spend your time on? Are you a consumer, a constructor, or a contributor?
What is the measure of your character?
Tish Tosh Tesh 
Professor Beej is doing some research regarding jour question: “Research for a future article – Answer this question in 1 tweet/140 characters (yes, it is purposefully vague): “Why do you do what you do?””
My answer was: Because it either makes me feel good, is worth the effort or prevents me from suffering bad things and just needs to be done.
-> “feel good” is the irrational and hard to explain part, the rational part is to do something to prevent negative consequences.
I think your question is similar to that. I think I am a consumer. While I like to think about game systems and game worlds, I very much prefer to consume them than to do the hard work and create them.
BTW, regarding your comments and play the game: Getting a better +X weapon is also motivating to many people. It might be a shallow motivation, but it is very common, resulting too often in the totally boring play to get gear to get better gear vicious circle.
Yup, the loot treadmill can definitely motivate some people. It just doesn’t do much for me, at least not for long, and I don’t think it’s particularly healthy in the long run, either for the industry or the players.
“What would you do in an MMO (or any other game) if you didn’t have to work for gear or levels, and all your in-game wants and needs were satisfied?”
I guess I’d explore and chat to people. But if all your in game wants and needs are satisfied, is there any game left? I mean even in something as simple as chess, you want to win. I’m trying to imagine what sort of gameplay you’d have in an MMO if there was no levelling, gear, economy or PvP. If it’s just running around and collecting things then I’ll go find a more fun game!
And when I’m not working I do take things easier hour-wise but I often find some temporary voluntary work — try to pick up new skills or hone old ones, get some writing done, sort out housework (I hate housework but it’s so very nice to have time to do it when you aren’t shattered from work), spend more time visiting friends around the country, etc. I dunno if it’s actually more productive or not though.
“But if all your in game wants and needs are satisfied, is there any game left?”
My point precisely. What *is* left? More than once, I’ve read about raiders who laud the teamwork and rush of *playing* the raiding game. This is then the question in no unclear terms: is that worth playing? Really and honestly, if the play is the thing, is it enough?
What actually is the game of these MMO things? As far as I’m concerned, it’s pretty shallow. This is one way to really ask yourself if you’re having fun, finding joy in the journey, or if you’re just chasing that bit of cheese that you’ll never actually reach.
I consider the perpetual bait to be poor game design, tapping the inner Ferengi pack rat in all of us. It doesn’t offer us anything educational, uplifting or lasting, just something else to *do* and something to *reach for*, always staying out of reach. I don’t think that’s healthy.
Thanks for the link Tesh!
My article was inspired by my experiences with my guild back in EverQuest. Back then I was enamored by the power of MMOs to create and build communities of players. Real communities where you could actually participate together.
Personally speaking, the “loot” has always been secondary for me and more of a means then an end unto itself. The ends being friendship and camaraderie.
I also loved the idea of freedom. You could go anywhere you wanted back in EQ. You didn’t have to worry about being locked out of an instance or you didn’t have to worry that you had not enough people or too many people for a raid.
Where has all the freedom gone in our MMOs?
We traded that freedom for the security and glamor of instanced content. But that’s another discussion…
Like you, I’m perplexed that we still have MMOs that are so one-dimensional skinner boxes that reward players with yet even more powerful loot. Where does it ever end?
I’ve seen WoW guilds break up and fracture because players weren’t getting enough loot. The lust for loot has destroyed guilds and friendships. All for a few shiny purple pixels?
I’m not suggesting we get rid of loot but can we please have some MMOs that reward players with something other then loot?
I’m not sure what would be left. MMO’s are based very much on an extended multiplayer version of offline RPGS. In those, the goals are advancement of characters and story, with minigames as diversions.
If you wanted to get rid of levels and gear, you’d have to vastly increase story and missions to compensate for the lack of any real character advancement. It could work if you designed the game around it, but you have to make some seriously compelling gameplay to mask the fact your character never changes much.
Thanks for the mention, Longasc. I’ve had some really good responses so far..
As for your question, Tesh, if I had all my material needs taken care of, and I could do one thing, it would be write. I’d spend all day in front of a screen or with a notepad in my lap, and I’d write my ideas down, edit them, and do my best to publish them and get into conversations with them. I love the written word, and if it weren’t for the pesky “I have to pay my bills” paradigm, I’d write more now. Maybe one day I’ll find a way to effectively utilize my writing to pay those bills, but unfortunately, for now, my passion remains just that.
[…] beyond loot, a response. Tesh at his blog has a very good post here about both the need for work and the freedom from it, and poses a strong question: “What […]
[…] always thoughtful Tesh wrote an article that wasn't about discontent, but hinted at the general feeling some have been experiencing lately. […]
By getting rid of “loot”, are you talking raiding loot or all loot? By getting rid of levels, are you getting rid of quests?
I play games because ultimately I am a collector. Animal Crossing, The Sims, Pokemon, even WoW. I collect stuff. Not always high end raiding gear, just stuff in general.
For example in WoW, I am an avid pet collector and achievement obtainer. I plan on completing Loremaster. If end game raiding were removed right now, I would still continue to play. WoW would just be another version of Animal Crossing to me.
If I didn’t have to work I would spend 40+ hours per week in a classroom setting learning as much as possible about whatever happened to interest me the most at the time. After that I would teach small groups of people in a small but dedicated educational institution.
Wow, amazing question. I’ve never thought of it before like that. Oddly enough, I pictured WoW and then immediately jumped to some sort of sandbox world in which all of the players rivaled for territory control, fought draongs to save villages etc and effect the real fabric of the world. Amazing stuff… but maybe just impossible with current technology?
Nice post. I think the answer would vary among the Bartle types. For achievers, working for loot and levels *is* the game, so i’m not sure there would be much left if you took that away.
For explorers and socializers, I suppose the answers would be “explore the world” and “socialize” respectively. For killers, probably PvP.
Perhaps the question is whether there is a way to cater to explorers, socializers, and killers without forcing them to go through an achiever-style grind?
(Incidentally, I’m assuming you’re an explorer. Your examples of “playing the game” are mostly explorer-style play).
Hmm…
To answer your question:
What would you do in an MMO (or any other game) if you didn’t have to work for gear or levels, and all your in-game wants and needs were satisfied?
—-
Guild Wars: Exactly what I do now.
Well I play GW because I like building and testing character builds. Of course I like their world, and the first time through each campaign/expansion, I played to see the storyline. But really, I play GW now, because I like tinkering and testing builds.
—–
Jade Dynasty: Explore the storyline (again, what I’m doing now).
I’m currently having an affair with a Chinese (localised in English) MMO by Perfect World Entertainment, called Jade Dynasty, based off their mandarin title, Zhu Xian. I am playing Jade Dynasty because I want to:
a) See more of their graphics and animations on each of the factions (classes).
While the toon customisation is extremely limited, the animations are beautiful. It’s like street-fighter type moves in an MMO. Even their autoattack for melee is beautiful – and that’s rather an achievement in terms of attention to detail.
b) See more of the areas, even though their PvE is lacklustre.
I like seeing scenery! And it’s nice to be playing an MMO where the ‘Chinese calligraphy’ on the walls actually IS Chinese calligraphy. The music is also beautiful.
c) See more of the (very convoluted) storyline.
Jade Dynasty is *extremely* Wuxia in atmosphere and storyline. Unlike GW, you aren’t the ‘main’ character or protagonist in the story. So far it seems you’re on the trail of the protagonist, trying to track him down, as it were. XD It’s kinda fun. I want to see what MORE melodrama in his already melodramatic story lies in store. JD is endgame PvP, but from what I’ve read, endgame PvP seems to be a race to one-shot each other. Not my type of PvP, so I’ll just play to see as much of the story as I can, then go back to making weird GW builds. XD
From what I’ve written, it may appear that JD is not loot or level driven, but it most DEFINITELY is. It’s just that I’m not playing it that way. I’m not min-maxing it, that is (which is unusual for me). Which is not to say I’m not researching my faction builds etc etc… just, that’s how I play games. But I’m not minmaxing to compete with anyone – I don’t generally minmax to compete with people, but some games force you to do that. TBH, I’m playing JD as if it is an RPG, with the added benefit of having people around (since no one seems to make titles like Wizardry anymore 😦 ).
—
Hmm so hm, would I play MMOs differently if they effectively made gear and levels irrelevant? … no not really ^_^
This is also probably why I stopped playing WoW. It took me 3 years to realise in my gut what I’d been saying since within the first year of playing WoW. I made my friends sick of me, hearing me say it – that I wished that WoW had a gear cap, not an infinite gear spiral.
Of course I was phrasing it badly. What I was really saying was, I dislike infinite gear spirals, and prefer gear caps. =)
I love to create, so I’d spend my time writing and directing movies, creating new games and testing them out on people to see the reaction.
I think that’s where a lot of the boredom comes from nowadays: there’s nothing new out there. No one wants to take a chance and veer off the path (no one with money anyway).
As far as the gaming question goes, I think I’d create a world where people actually lived. You’d have fully player run economies, you’d have NPC factions that would choose to wage war with other nations, you’d be able to own / work in a shop should you want to, adventure if you want to, join the local militia if you wanted to.
The world would be huge and you could do whatever your heart desired. A sandbox like that would be interesting, methinks. Take SW:G for instance. Crappy game now, but when it first came out there was no end game. Sounds crappy then too, right? But what happened? The players made their OWN end game content via what was available in the world. They built their cities, made stories, had all kinds of interactions. Hell I was a bounty hunter that ran the most successful brothel on my server! (All I did was finance the construction :P)
Give players tools to make a story / world and they will. But MMOs put players in the company’s world with the company’s story and just have them play along. There’s nothing truly dynamic about it. Look at the battlegrounds in WoW. 6 years and no change in ownership? Sure in Cataclysm some of that will change, but it requires a whole new expansion.
Surely something can be done to fix that.
Ahh… well if it were a question of what would I do with a Massively Multiplayer TEXT BASED Online game well…
Things would be so different. =)
Perhaps I will see the day that our technology advances enough that the kind of thing allowed by the agnostic medium of text is transferable to sound, graphics and perhaps even … touch and smell? O.o
…but then as a little kid I thought we’d be terraforming planets by now. XD
Dblade, “seriously compelling gameplay” is precisely what I’m angling for. I want to enjoy playing, not looting. You’re right in that it would take a redesign pretty much from the ground up. Let’s do it already. 😉
Beej, writing is a blast. I keep telling my wife that I need to sit down and write (and illustrate) my Dinotopia. Someday…
Phaedra, I’m not necessarily talking about getting rid of loot, just changing the reason for it. There’s certainly a collector’s gene in most of us that the Animal Crossing/Pokemon games scratch, but those games (like my company’s Kingdom for Keflings) are more about the play, less about the naked acquisition that only serves to fuel more acquisition. For a WoW example, I’m a fan of Hunters, and if I didn’t have to deal with levels or grinding, I’d still go out and try to train all the various pets I could to fill up my screenshot folder.
Wolfgang, I’ve said before that I’d love to make a living as a perpetual student. I love learning, and if I didn’t have to work, I’d definitely spend time absorbing data.
Spitfire (Gordon), yes, I do think that some of this sort of sandbox world simulation is technologically difficult or unfeasible at present. Still… it’s something that I’d like to see experimented with more than it is, or else there’s no impetus to *get* better tech that would suit it.
Tolthir, yes, I’m an Explorer. Very much so. Still, I’m not sure that Achievers are only in it for the loot and levels. That’s why I mention the raider mentality of getting a rush from taking down a hard raid. That’s certainly an achievement, but it only relates to levels inasmuch as access to the raid is gated. It’s those gates that I want to smash, not the achievement potential.
Nugget, infinite gear spirals are soul sucking black holes. A level cap, as in Guild Wars, goes a long way to making the game more about playing than racing. I appreciate that.
Wiqd, I think you’ve pegged it by noting that the people with the money are reticent. I’ve long distrusted “investors”, and firmly believe that the investment mindset of “making your money work for you” is the root cause of a lot of nasty things in our economy. That it effectively guts innovation and progress is one of the more pernicious effects. Games aren’t immune, and the bigger the game, the worse the effect. MMOs are hugely expensive beasties, and suffer perhaps more than most.
“Give players tools to make a story / world and they will.” This is a key, too. You can’t keep players from being creative, even in the most restrictive environments. Leveraging that urge to make the game better rather than trying to keep it tightly reined in is one of the keys of making a better MMO, methinketh.
“Perhaps I will see the day that our technology advances enough that the kind of thing allowed by the agnostic medium of text is transferable to sound, graphics and perhaps even … touch and smell? O.o” – Nugget
Yes, this is extremely limiting right now. Relating video game creation to printing, what designers have to do now to make a game is as if a writer had to carve every single letter out of lead to make the plates to print their book. And there’s not even that big of a vocabulary.
The question is, what would a word processor for games look like?
@Azetidine
Like a MUD/MUSH/MOO/MUCK of course!
…or Zork, or the Hitchhiker’s Guide…
You know, those things… XD
I think their downfall is more that in their current forms they lack mass market appeal and easy accessibility.
I’ve tried to get people who’ve started with MMOs, as their reference for online gaming, to try text-based worlds. Those who sound interested all go, ‘Oooh that sounds so neat’, but when actually faced with downloading either a MUDclient, or using Telnet, they run screaming for the hills.
…I don’t think a single one of these people, whether friends, or from comments/etc who indicated interest, has ever made the leap of faith (and effort) it takes to try out a text-based world.
I am convinced there is money here, if the omg this is so scary and bothersome and hard to set up could be moved out of the way…
[…] had more than one occasion to wonder about the nature of work and welfare, and to wonder just what it is that I should be doing with my peculiar and particular […]