What with all the fuss over LOTRO’s impending renaissance (or doom, depending on your crystal ball), I’ve been idly wondering what server segregation might do to assuage the fears of the fans of gated communities (M.o.B. is asking for some civility there; he’s not one of the snoots). <snooty>One must keep the heathens out, after all; imagine what it might be like if they outnumbered the veteran “real players”. They don’t even play the right way. Maybe we should just autodelete all the noobs every week. At the very least, we should tell them to go home.</snooty>
Puzzle Pirates has separate “subscription” and “microtransaction” servers, for instance, and it seems to serve them well enough. Each server has its own community, politics and economy, though there is certainly cross-pollination on the master forums and players who play on multiple servers. Incidentally, the microtransaction servers have been most profitable for Three Rings, though they happily maintain both flavors. Players play on servers that match their finances; happy customers are a valuable asset. Even if they aren’t subscribers.
On another hand, you could go with a “scarlet letter” approach, as I noted over at KTR, if you’re working with an integrated community, and make it visible to one and all how players are paying for their gaming. Maybe that would make the Old Guard feel better, as they get their warm fuzzies by denigrating the little people. <snooty>Sit in the back of the boat, you, you… casuals and tourists! Respect my subscription-granted Authority!</snooty> I mean, we already have GearScore and Achievement segregation in WoW and other pecking order mechanics in other MMOs (“I can’t believe she’s wearing that gear, what a noob”), what’s the difference, right?
It really is interesting how these MMO things tinker with sociality.
Some also bemoan the rise of soloability, occasionally with similar utopian fervor. In my mind, though, the continuing democratization of the business models and game designs of these MMOs is a Good Thing. That’s how the free market works, ideally; innovation and experimentation provide for variety, and the most profitable ideas rise to the top. Sometimes, they even prove to be the best ideas, too. We’re not quite a meritocracy, but a varied market does tend to work better than One Size Fits All economic theory… ditto for game design. I mean, Turbine couldn’t possibly be paying attention to the industry, could they?
But hey, it’s a free world, right? If people want gated communities, they should be free to pay for them, right? Let the market decide, perhaps. There’s money to be made making people feel special… especially if those people will pay handsomely (through the nose) for prestige (For the Horde!). Conspicuous consumption, indeed; <snooty>what good are expensive toys if you can’t show them off and make other people feel inferior? What good is it to be a member of the subscription elite if you can’t lord it over the inbred masses of free to play tourists?
Why play with other people if you can’t be better than them? Even segregation only matters inasmuch as players know that there are other places they could be, but they don’t qualify because they aren’t as good as someone else because of how they pay for the game.</snooty>
Pfeh. Lovely post-prejudice society we live in, eh? It’s very interesting to see long-held but long-repressed opinions come out of the woodwork. Funny how time and stress do that to people; candid opinions are far more informative than processed ones. It’s especially curious to me that the prejudicial cancer of the LOTRO community is based on things that haven’t even happened yet. As such, the real problem for the community isn’t really an undefined nonpresent boogeyman, but the attitudes already held by those already in the community.
It almost makes me wonder what the response would be to a zombie apocalypse. Sometimes, it’s the survivors that are the monsters…
I really do think that in DDO veterans have loved having newbies to play with. DDO has always encouraged a lot of alting. Most veterans have lots of alts and enjoy rolling new characters. And it’s been much more fun for them to have new people to play with in a crowded Harbour and Starter Isle.
There have been some complaints about the quality of chat, refusal to take advice and bad pugs but overall the good has outweighed the bad for that community.
I think that you are not realizing one important point. No matter what happens, the community will change. That change will alter the game, and in my experience such changes never make the status quo better.
That’s what I don’t like about the anti-elitism replies: they ignore that adding a lot of people will change a game community, or even a real life one, and not to the benefit of the people already there.
It’s not irrational at all: what’s irrational is to think that just be being a welcoming, tolerant person you can make any negative aspects of that change go away. Welcoming wal-mart didn’t bring back all the jobs they destroyed when they drove local shops out of business. If your downtown becomes a home to check cashing places and mental health services, going out to give cookies and milk wont change much either. (like my town)
The Landroval server especially is vulnerable. RP is so easy to grief and so reliant on people respecting the rules and being mature that they wont be able to maintain it in public any more.
At this point though its moot. You can worry all you like about change, it’s coming so all you can do is deal with it. I think a lot of people will self-segregate and you’ll see the community worsen no matter what, and become more like a typical MMO. People wont come to LOTRO for the community, they’ll come because it’s free.
No, I’m well aware that it will change. It can’t help but change. The point is that elitist bigoted attitudes don’t help, and only make the “Us vs. Them” problems worse. The LOTRO community is presently edgier and grumpier because of fear, not because of anything that has actually happened. That environment causes problems.
Maybe F2P will make LOTRO survive. It seems they have or won’t have enough compelling new content to counter the upcoming 1. Cataclysm 2. SWTOR 3. Guild Wars 2.
My first reaction was LOTRO – F2P? This can’t work well, not in an open world. It is not like the more instanced and modular DDO that works so well for this approach.
LOTRO’s community is wonderful for sure, but I also experienced very snotty behaviour towards new players who were not the 3rd or 4th alt on LOTRO’s german servers myself. Maybe some noobs can be a cure. I also read of unfriendly hardcore RP on Landroval, only insiders wanted.
What most Americans don’t know is that Codemasters, they run LOTRO EU, offered a price-reduced lifetime offer one month before dropping the LOTRO goes F2P bomb. I really wondered about that, as no new content was announced and feared the worst. A lot of the people who bought the reduced lifetime feel cheated, on the other hand one can argue it is a wonderful offer, after thinking a bit more about the prices. Still, this offer was made with fraudulent intent for a cash grab.
Another fascinating idea: Add something so awesome to the game that people would not mind a sub model that involves selling the soul of their firstborn. I would subscribe to that.
Interesting post, Tesh. As someone who administrated a long-standing community, I’ve seen how people can become insular and suspicious of outsiders. That can really hurt a game, especially if people are already skittish about playing a game.
In DDO, things have mostly seemed positive. Although, I have seen a few instances of bigotry, where people require that other players be VIP to join a group. I’ve also heard people refer to “freetards” in global chat. I’ve also noticed that playing modules I’ve paid for generally go smoother than playing the “free” modules.
An influx of people can be good or bad, depending on the number of people and the quality. I think it will generally be a good thing, but I can also see Dblade’s point that the RP server might be really vulnerable to an influx of the “unwashed masses”. We’ll see how it goes.
Maybe there’s a good community management reason to insulate the RP servers then? Ultimately, yes, Dblade is correct that new people bring new problems. I’m not disputing that. It’s just that such is always the case, and that enlightening newbies is a better idea in my mind than excluding them because of prejudice toward potential problems. You get what you expect, more often than not.
Maybe LOTRO is in the best position to really take RP servers seriously, and harshly enforce them, as well as maybe even setting up an entry application process. If it’s clear up front that some servers, say the RP ones, will tolerate no nonsense *as the devs define it*, perhaps they can be the safe haven some want. Maybe that’s even worth paying a little extra for.
Server segregation can work, but it almost has to come from the devs as the lawgivers, not from the players as bigots.
I personally think fresh faces bring new life to any mmo. Free to play ones are just more likely to come back every so often if your game is fun.
‘It really is interesting how these MMO things tinker with sociality.’
Oh come on, really! The MMO made them do it? I am of the same opinion/evaluation in terms of the pecking order you mentioned, but the idea that the mmo somehow reaches out and inserts this behaviour into a persons brain?
Nay, it was already present and active.
“Funny how time and stress do that to people; candid opinions are far more informative than processed ones.”
If your not listening to the opinion they want you to hear and instead looking for WHY they want you to hear a certain opinion, I agree, that is more informative! Motives are more exposed.
And on changing communities – I think that’s exactly what can choke a game – you get a bank of people who start being insular and unless others go their way, they lock other people out of play. I’ve had this in lotro on one server with being kicked in the moors (sounds painful) because I didn’t have vent.
This old guard starts setting up all sorts of little rules, much like a sirlin scrub, simply because they have a bee in their bonnet about something and have found a bunch of other people who do too. They become evangelical about their bee, trying to drop it on as many people as possible ‘because it’s the right way to play’, and basically they are bad for buisiness as they drive customers away.
An influx of people actually breaks up this ‘close minded little village’ pattern.
“Oh come on, really! The MMO made them do it?”
*chuckle*
Nah, you’re misreading me there. MMO devs certainly have an effect on their players, but absolutely here, it’s just tapping things that already exist. That’s sort of the point when I bring it back to the larger notions of bigotry and prejudice.
I do think that the influx of new people will be healthier for the game and the community in the long run. It’s just going to be a painful transition as some of the old guard close ranks (partially based on understandable fears, if unhealthy ones). Eventually it works out… but it may take a while. It will be interesting to see how things develop.
Interesting and enjoyable (as always) post, Tesh!
To me it seems that players are very egalitarian when it comes to games but less so in real life. In fact, often their views on gaming doesn’t reflect their real life activities at all! Server segregation, for instance, may seem like a horrible thing but it is any different from the (as you the hinted at) demands of the free market that we all experience on a day-to-day basis?
Here’s a good example: if someone had the cash do you think they would prefer to live in a ghetto ridden with crime and poverty or move to a more wealthy area that offers a better community, schools and environment? Silly question really because we all know the answer
‘Nah, you’re misreading me there.’
I’m gunna be pedantic – I think it’s possible I read the text perfectly well, but you wrote the wrong thing to convey what you meant. Could be that either (or even both) of us stuffed up there, not just one of us/me.
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